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Author Topic: Polish Allied contingent OoB  (Read 2675 times)
Anatoli
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« on: July 31, 2008, 08:28:44 AM »

Continuing my idea of a Polish Allied contingent force in a seperate thread.

Despite the severe defeat in 1939, the Poles formed five more armies, including four in exile: in France in 1939, in the United Kingdom in the summer of 1940 (after the defeat and capitulation of France), and twice in the USSR in 1941. These were the army of Gen. Anders that fought later in the South of Europe, and the one that emerged in 1943 and later fought at the Red Army’s side. The fifth Polish army, created at the end of September of 1939 was the conspiratorial armed force in the occupied territory. For the entire period of the war there also existed the very important “silent front” – the intelligence.  Probably up to 2 millions Poles served since September 1st, 1939 to May 8th, 1945 in all the Polish military formations – regular armies, partisan troops and underground forces. In the final stage of war the Polish troops on all the European fronts amounted to some 600 000 soldiers (infantry, armored troops, aircraft and navy). In the summer of 1944, while commencing regular military struggle against the retreating Germans, the armed underground numbered more than 300 thousands sworn soldiers. It can be concluded that Poland put in the field the fourth greatest Allied army. 


...


I've summed up the Polish forces on the west/east/home fronts and put them in seperate categories.



Polish forces as contignent for western allies UK avaible in 1944:

Polish I Corps

*Polish 1st Armoured Division:
Type - Shock troops
885 - officers and NCOs
15,210 - soldiers
381 - tanks (mostly M4 Shermans)
473 - artillery pieces (mostly motorized)
4050 - motor cars, trucks, utility vehicles, artillery carriersNickname Black Division
Engagements Battle of Falaise, Battle of Breda


*Polish 1st Independent Parachute Brigade

Type - Airborne force, rapidly deployable aeromobile infantry force.
Part of Directly subordinate to Polish Government in Exile
On 6 June 1944 transferred under British command
Engagements Operation Market Garden

Equipment:
Standard British paratrooper battledress with Polish markings
Lee-Enfield Rifle
Machine pistols
Sten Mk2
Bren LMG
Lee-Enfield Rifle, No.4, Mk.I
PIAT missile
Other weapons
The Polish paratroopers were also extensively trained in usage of German weapons and Polish pre-war weapons available to the Polish Underground


Polish II Corps

Polish 3rd Carpathian Rifle Division
Polish 5th Kresowa Infantry Division
Polish 2nd Armoured Brigade

(The Polish 3rd Carpathian Rifle Division was an Allied unit fighting during World War II on the Italian Front. It was formed in 1942 of the Polish Independent Carpathian Brigade and the forces of General Władysław Anders' 2nd Polish Corps evacuated from the USSR.)

Type Infantry
Role Mountain warfare
Engagements Tobruk, Alem Hamza, Bardia Monte Cassino, Gothic Line, Ancona, Bologna

                                                      --------------------

Polish forces as contignent for eastern allies USSR avaible 1944:

*1st Polish Army
Polish 1st Tadeusz Kosciuszko Infantry Division
Polish 2nd Infantry Division
Polish 3rd Infantry Division
Polish 4th Infantry Division
Polish 6th Infantry Division
Polish 1st Armoured Brigade "Westerplatte Heroes"
Polish 1st Warsaw Cavalry Brigade
in addition:
Army artillery: 5 Artillery Brigades (1-5), 1st AA-Artillery Division, 1st mortar regiment
1st Engineering Brigade
4th independent heavy tank regiment
13th SP-artillery regiment (SU-85 and ISU-152)

*2nd Polish Army
Polish 5th Infantry Division
Polish 7th Infantry Division
Polish 8th Infantry Division
Polish 9th Infantry Division
Polish 10th Infantry Division
16th Armoured Brigade,
2nd Artillery Division, 3rd AA-artillery Division, 3rd indep. mortar regiment
3 AT-artillery brigades (nos.9,11,14)
2nd Sapper Brigade
4th independent heavy tank regiment
28th SP-artillery regiment (21 x SU-85)

1st Armoured Corps: 3 armoured brigades, 1st Motorized Infantry Brigade - details below. Subordinated to the 2nd Army
Equipment:
T-34 m.41, m.43, T-34/85,
T-70,
IS-2,
SU-57, SU-76M, SU-85, ISU-122, ISU-152,
BA-64,
Universal Carrier,
M2 Halftrack (few), M17 (M16) SP-AA gun (few).

1st Motorized Infantry Brigade (Polish)(East)
2nd Armoured Brigade (2. Brygada Pancerna) - (65 x T-34/85)
3rd Armoured Brigade
4th Armoured Brigade
24th SP-artillery regiment (21 x SU-85)
25th SP-artillery regiment (21 x ISU-122)
27th SP-artillery regiment (21 x SU-76M)
2nd mortar regiment
26th AA-artillery regiment
Rocket artillery battalion

                                            --------------------


Armja Krajowa (Polish resistance)
Armia Krajowa - brigade or division-sized units only

Polish 2nd Home Army Infantry Division (Kielce-Radom)
Polish 8th Home Army Infantry Division (Warsaw Uprising 45,000men (initially)
Polish 19th Home Army Infantry Division (Wilno)
Polish 27th Home Army Infantry Division (Wołyń)
Polish Cracovian Home Army Infantry Division
Polish Cracovian Home Army Cavalry Brigade
Narodowe Siły Zbrojne

The most famous Home army was the one taking part in the Warsaw uprising. Their equipment as listed on the outbreak of the uprising:
1,000 rifles
1,700 pistols
300 machine pistols
60 submachine guns
7 machine guns (medium or light, such as the MG 42)
35 anti-tank guns and anti-tank rifles (including several PIATs)
25,000 hand grenades (mainly of the 'stick' variety).
In the course of the fighting the Poles obtained further supplies through airdrops and by capture from the enemy (including several armoured vehicles). Also, the insurgents’ workshops worked busily throughout the uprising, producing 300 automatic pistols, 150 flame-throwers, 40,000 grenades, a number of mortars, and even an armoured car (Kubuś).


...

So before I start writing the OoB here are my ideas for how the "Polish Allied Contingent" would work:


For the British, the poles would be avaible as:
Armoured division,(Infantry using british equipment & supported by M4 Sherman tanks)
Paratroopers,  Airborne light infantry with british equipment and limited support options like Light AT guns and mortars)
Mountain troops, so they should have standard british equipment & very limited armour support + some sort of cliffscaling rule.


For the Russians, the poles would be avaible as:
As both infantry and armoured troops with pretty much the same equipment as regular russian troops.


If played as a Resistance fighter force:
Light infantry, w mixed/captured equipment. Very limited access to any heavy weapons and vehichles/armour.


Polish troops are avaible as both allied contingents (Polish units/platoons mixed with russians/british troops), but can be played as an all Polish force operating on it's own when playing campaigns or certain scenarios (if you want to play the 1st polish paratrooper brigade in a Market Garden scenario or the 3rd Carpathian division charging up the slopes of Monte Casino).

...


Here are some of my personal thoughts about Polish OoB special rules:

"Better to flee and fight another day"
Polish troops may be fielded as allied contingent with a Soviet or British force or to operate on their own as part of a larger operation led by their parent army if playing a campaign. They have the same sort of equipment and uniforms as their parent army but have additional rules of their own.

"Strife for vengeance"
Poland is lost, but the fight continues to reclaim the motherland from the Germans. Whenever polish troops fight Germans they may add +1 to all of their cool checks to symbolize their fierce hatred for the Nazi oppressors.

"Uneasy alliance" - USSR
The poles serving the Soviet Union haven’t forgotten the betrayal of 1939. After the Katyn massacre of polish officers by soviet troops in 1940 and revealed in 1943, the poles have the right to be suspicious, to say the least, of their new masters.
Polish troops under Soviet command may never "Form up" with soviet squads. They will however only suffer -1 on their "Sarge is a goner" check (since most officers are russian).

"Tense relations" - UK
Having escaped poland, and then evacuated from france the poles under british command are annoyed of being sidetracked too often. To prove their worth polish troops fight with less caution and more ferocity than their allies, this proves to be both an asset and a problem as they recklessly charge the enemy.
Polish troops under British command add +1 to "Just do it" checks, but may never issue "Hold position" orders.

"To the last bullet" - Resistance
Polish resistance fighters start as Veterans.

...



I will work on unit compositions and OoB for all 3 forces avaible and post them here as they get ready. I think I can get started with this for real on Monday next week. I will also try to get hold on some pics of uniforms , different markings, emblems and such.

It will take some time and work to break it down to 3 seperate OoB lists so have some patience  Wink
Ideas and suggestions are welcome.
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John Bailey
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The Pope? How many divisions has he got?


« Reply #1 on: July 31, 2008, 08:33:53 AM »

Anatoli-

First you need to drill down to the "nitty gritty"- what was the basic squad organization/TOE for the most common unit type (presumably rifle section)- how many men, what was their kit, what was their command structure.

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john
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Anatoli
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« Reply #2 on: July 31, 2008, 08:36:28 AM »

That's pretty much what I will do next, it was good to see what kind of equipment they used to make the decisions of unit creation easier. I will study your BoB OoB UK/USSR section and start from there.
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major gangreen
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« Reply #3 on: July 31, 2008, 12:00:25 PM »

Hi, what a fantastic level of detail, looking forward to seeing what you do with this. Grin

I'm off to Claymore(convention in Scotland not a wierd highland retreat) this Weekend and i know there a company selling WW2 Romainians which i might pick up, will make great thralls for Frau Tear.

Thanks Jeff
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A thousand years of war will make Germany a stronger nation
John Bailey
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The Pope? How many divisions has he got?


« Reply #4 on: July 31, 2008, 07:48:17 PM »

Hi, what a fantastic level of detail, looking forward to seeing what you do with this. Grin



Speaking from experience, it's easy to get lost in company/division level details that often don't translate down to platoon/squad level.  Squad/section level detail is probably the hardest to find.

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john
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Anatoli
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« Reply #5 on: August 04, 2008, 09:13:59 AM »

Just wanted to inform you guys that Im currently doing research on all the "types" of units I've listed. I think the first complete OoB for the Polish Allied Contingent will be for the Paratroopers since I have most info on those guys right nog, followed by the resistance that also have quite detailed descriptions.


I find it difficult to find out the platoon/squad sizes for the polish units in the 1st & 2nd Polish Corp for the UK, and the Russian counterparts. I do believe however that those units would follow the same organisation as the main army of respective country.
I do know that the unit size of soviet and british squads during 1944, and I do know the exact weapons used by british units/platoons and the equipment avaible on company level for the Polish paratroopers during the Arnhem Operation. I also found out earlier that most officers in the polish formations on the russian front were russian, hence the lighter penalty of "sarge is a goner" rule.

I have gathered quite a lot of material, and it will take up to a week or two before I can post the first complete OoB units. Just wanted to let you know that the wheels are spinning  Wink
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Anatoli
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« Reply #6 on: December 30, 2009, 02:39:26 PM »

This thread is a bit ancient, BUT, I came to think about it today - the Polish OoB I've posted in the Orders of Battle part of the forum (current version is 1.1 soon to be 1.2) would work with Bellum Europa. Only weird elements are special rules for the Polish Partisan hero, rest of the stuff is pretty accurate from a historical standpoint. So for all those WW2 nuts out there, it shouldn't be a problem to use those rules /units  Smiley
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